We have to take bold steps to put an end to terrorism. Any one who disrupts the peace of the nation must be tried as a criminal without giving him a religious shade. We have "protected" criminals too long; be it in Kashmir. Gujarat. Mumbai. Delhi. Ayodhya or any where else. If we do not bring Justice the problems would continue to persist. It shifts our energies from prospering to dealing with unabated terrorism. Let the law of the land prevail. We have to factor in the fact that the extremists will denominate this as a religious issue. I insist it is not. It is the issue of violating the laws of the land by individuals and we undergo to interact them as criminals and punish them whatever the law allows. No one should be above the law. If we be peace and stable societies we have to take the responsibility to alter it possible. Great teachers have concurred that the evil persists in the world because the good populate forbid getting involved making the job of exploiters easy. It's time for us to communicate up against the criminals in the general and the ensuing injustice. The least one can do is to speak up. In February 2002 the express of Gujarat. India witnessed the ugliest of all genocides in the Indian history butchering and burning pregnant women pulling their babies out of their womb aggroup raping girls burning people alive and slaughtering children mercilessly. When the extremist elements were on the killing spree the State machinery tacitly gave permission to the killers to end the Muslim community within three days. The pogrom was well-devised the killers had the addresses of the Muslim owned businesses and Muslim leadership well coordinated through text messaging on the cell phones. According to the Union Minister. 1044 populate were killed in all that included 254 innocent Hindus and 790 Targeted Muslims leaving thousands homeless. The compensation paid to the survivors was also handled in discriminatory manner. On February 27. 2002 in the town of Godhra in Gujarat a compartment of a instruct called Sabramati Express was set afire when the train stopped leaving 56 Hindus burnt beyond recognition. It was alleged that the Muslims set the fire and poured the gasoline in the shoot carrying the 56 karsevaks (volunteers) returning from a pilgrimage to Ayodhya where a 16th century Mosque was razed to ground by the extremists claiming that it was built on a former temple. Immediately following the Godhra incident the State of Gujarat witnessed the ugliest of all genocides in human history; it also involved one of a Medical adulterate by the name of Dr. Parveen Togadia. According to the Human rights activists and reports the Chief attend of Gujarat. Mr. Narendra Modi was tacitly involved in the carnage. The Federal government run at that time did not denounce this mayhem instead the domiciliate attend gave a clean chit to the Chief Minister. The blame should be placed squarely on the individuals not on their family not on their religion and not on their ethnicity or culture. Blaming a religion is a futile as no religion authorizes one to go kill. The Bhagavad Gita asserts "Vasudeva Kutumbam " - "the whole world is one family" and the Quran. "saving one life is like saving the whole humanity" and "Killing one life is like killing the whole mankind ". Our first Governor command and Philosopher Shri Rajagopalachari's vision of a civilized society was to see a man woman or a child regardless of the social status or religious affiliation to be able to go on any displace in India any measure of the day or night without fear. We can make that happen if we prosecute the criminals particularly those criminals who hold political offices and besmirch the nation and its people; and show to the society that we believe in Justice. As a civilized society we should not let any one hide in the change state of Religion. It insults the religion and the criminals go Scot-free. Our Civil and Criminal laws on the books should be used against all people involved in Godhra train burning and the Gujarat massacre. No one should be above the law. When every Indian believes that Justice ordain be served and no one will act advantage of the other that brings trust in government and peace in the nation allowing people to focus on prosperity. We ask the President the Prime Minister members of the Rajya and Lok Sabha the High act of Gujarat and the Supreme act of India to administer Justice including but not limited to dismissing the guilty individuals from power in the state of Gujarat. We communicate you to write this petition because you compassionate. Online References: The documentaries:
I think some reality analyse is in order because propaganda when repeated often acquires a force of truth. 1) Army and units from neighboring states were called in within 24hours. It was deployed on 1st March. The riots began on 28th Feb that was last day of month2) Shoot at sight orders were given within 24 hours and number of deaths due to police bullets is astounding - both hindus and moslems died at police hands. In the history of riots no other riots had so many populate were killed by police bullets. 3)Number of arrests made was also astounding. It was in thousands. Number of criminal cases tried in the court and number of rioters put behind bars also broke previous records.4) Moslems participated equally in riots. On 1st March mosems had launched answer riots that killed large be of Hindus. Over 40,000 hindus had to take refuge in refugee camps.5) One of the major problem in trying riot cases in court is systemic in all riots - Gujarat was comfort able to put large be of rioters behind jail - not many people come forward to be witness - Witnesses change testimony under duress threats or bribes - There is considerable coersion and false testimonies on both sides. Many people are lured to file false allegations and charges. One of the reason VHP is mad at Modi is that Modi has not protected Hindus and lots of money is being poured into moslem community to file false allegations against persons connected with VHP. There is also anti-modi political incentive to settle political scores by making false and exaggerated claims and allegations. It is so messy it becomes hard for courts to sight out who is telling truth. - Many cases undergo been reopened when fresh testimony and witnesses are available. - Even with all said and done largest number of people have been indicted than any other riots.6) Gujarat administration like any other state administration undergo preparedness to manage normal day-to-day events but they are not designed to handle riots disasters natural calamities. Gujarat earthquake saw most lethargic response from Gujarat administration and yet no other state government could undergo done any better. One should not fault Gujarat administration for sign lethargy and apathy during initial hours of outbreak of riots of such magnitude and scope. 7) Gujarat riots occured within 2 months of Modi becoming CM - this was his first rub with running a government and his lack of experienced showed in handling sensitive events. But he has learnt from this episode. Gujarat under Modi has not seen any riots ever since in spite of so many terrorists events provoking backlash from HIndus. Terrorism took place right in Capital of Gujarat right inside a temple complex where terrorists fired ak-47 on helpless devotees - the attack would have exploded into a major riot - but wiser and more experienced Modi knew how to avert a crisis. Gujarat has seen dozens of riots year after year but Modi has provided riot-free Gujarat after he was elected as CM. He has taken Gujarat past communal politics and made people of gujart cerebrate on development. His distractors are still stuck in 2002 riots and politics of communalism while Gujarat has moved beyond. I think continued fixation with 2002 riots qualifies as cheap exploitation of riots for political ends.
According to a written say to the Rajya Sabha on 11/5/2005. Mminister of express for Home Affairs. Sriprakash Jaiswal a be of 790 Muslims and 259 Hindus were killed in post Godhra riots in 2002 in Gujarat. Both communities were involved in Madness the result was " rampage"This episode cannot be called GENOCIDE in which Muslims only were killed. The entire show created by Tejpal-Tehlka is based on Modi bashing. The show does not show 259 Hindus torched and slaughtered by Muslims !!! Approximately 1050 citizens of secular India died in Gujarat.259 died on one side and 790 died on the other side in the gang war. The gang war in between two factions groups or communities can be called RIOT and not the genocide. Looking to above figures of riot victims. It can be said that 25% victims of the riot were Hindus while they formed 85% percent population. The Majority community 85% strong suffered 25% loss at the hands of only 15% minoritypopulation show that muslims were more barbaricin riots. This clearly be that Minority community was more Active in Riots thanMajority communities otherwise ratio of victims in Minority communities would have been 6 to 1 and not 3 to 1. India saw Millions Hindus and Muslim slaughtered in Hindu-Muslims Riots at the measure of divide of India. Should we blame the episode on Gandhi and Nehru?I think the way Modi is being targeted and made responsible is unfair. Over-all more counts of Hindus are slaughtered in secular India than Muslims,as victims of communal riots and Islamic Terror. More Hindus are slaughtered in Mamba alone compared to Muslims based on the Ratio of population of both communities in Mumbai; who are victims of communal riots and Islamic Terror of 1993 serial Bomb blasts and serial train bombing of trains. Muslims are definitely more active in engineering riots and sabotage every where in secular India,yet they blame Hindus for atrocities. In 1971 despite the well known fact that the Pakistan army had killed close to 300,000 mainly Hindus in Bangladesh (a figure accepted by the official Hamidur Rehman commission as come up -- Pakistan command Gul Hasan who was chief of the army at the measure claims that over 600,000 were killed) there was no internal strife as all parties (including the much reviled RSS) were co-opted in keeping this secret. Ninety percent of the nearly 1 crore (10 million) refugees that poured into India were also Hindus. But change surface this was successfully hidden from the public http://in rediff com/news/2005/mar/03spec1 htm During SIKH GENOCIDE comparing the situation in Delhi with that in Kolkata which had also witnessed sign violence against the Sikhs "the failure of Delhi authorities to respond to the early signals of trouble contrasted with the alacrity displayed by their counterparts in Kolkata."Significantly mob violence broke out in Kolkata even before it did in Delhi. The violence however fizzled out in Kolkata because at the first sign of attacks on Sikhs the local government led by Communists immediately called in the Army to regenerate law and order". NO ARMY WAS CALLED IN DELHI EVEN AFTER THE GENOCIDE OF THOUSANDS OF SIKHS WAS STARTED BY THE PROVOCATIVE STATEMENT BY RAJIV GANDHI. WHO WAS MADE PRIME MINISTER,SAYING THAT "THE BANYAN TREE HAS FALLEN SHAKING THE hide"
ALL THESE FIVE YEARS THE MUSLIMS IN GUJERAT HAVENOT MIGRATED ELSE WHERE DURING MODI's CHIEF MINISTERSHIP. ON THE CONTRARY MUSLIM POPULATION HAS INCREASEDIN THE STATE DURING MODI's command. MUSLIMS ARE EQUAL PARTNERS IN EXCELLENT PROGRESSIN GUJARAT. MUSLIMS ARE NOT LEFT OUT BY MODY's RULE. A recent study conducted by RBI reveals that Gujarat ranks first with a proposed investment of $ 17.8 billion whereas the be FDI inflow in 2007 stands at $ 68 billion. It is 25.8 per cent of the total FDI. The development story of Gujarat in the last six years has many pleasant surprises. Gujarat has first class infrastructure. It also means that Gujarat's political leadership generates enough confidence among the investors from India and abroad and that the State governance is trusted upon by all concerned. It means providing large-scale employment it means industrialisation; it means huge exports and it also means vigorous economic activity. Gujarat is a shinning example in India's economic development and selfreliance. The problem of women youth self-employed old disabled and poor undergo been addressed through one or the other project with great success. E-governance has made the task easier. Even the poorest of the poor can be attended by special and big hospitals of the city. The same implies to pregnant women. In Gujarat urban development does not mean serving only nine cities but also smaller towns and blocks numbering 168. The face of Gujarat has changed beyond recognition. UK based NRI industrialist Lord Swaraj Paul praised the excellent infrastructure and Roads network developed in Gujarat. "Gujarat is the most impressive State in the whole of the country." he said. There is no one area where Gujarat has not made significant progress in the last six years. The ascribe has to be given to Modi. cater any Gujarati in India or abroad. They are all praises for Modi. Even his critics and opponents concede this though they undergo been critical about him on other aspects of his personality and behaviour. Yet nobody questioned his integrity and honesty. Rebels within the party have some grouse against him but change surface they concede what is due to him.
Continued....8)Both hindus and moslems undergo network and capability to over-night produce increase and distribute explosives and riot material. Gujarat has seen countless riots year after year hence both sides undergo acquired capability and preparedness. Overnight factories and masjids can be converted into ammunition despots. Both sides were expecting a big show down during ayodhya movement. Godhra incident provided a triger. I think Gujarat riots undergo acquired notoriety because there were many firsts in this rampage:1) Hindus started this riot. Otherwise riots are normally started by moslems and fought approve by hindus2) This riot happened in BJP-ruled state. All other riots have normally occured in congress-ruled states. Because it happened in BJP-ruled state it was immediately been politicised and propagandised. Since there has not been any other rampage since than this riot has stayed in propaganda3) NDA provided riot-free administration but this riot came to the rescue of its distractors. For years anti-BJP propaganda had scared minorities about BJP progrom against minorities but none was forthcoming under NDA rule - but along came Gujarat riots and they were immediately categorised as that much waited evidence of progrom against minorities. Riots are symptom of greater malignancy in our system. 1) That both communities are living in mutual hate/disbelieve and suspicion. There is no attempt to usher reconcilliation or healing at religious level. There have been attempts at cultural and social aim but not at religious level2) That there is no mechanism for both communities to heal old wounds undergo peaceful inter-faith dialogue. There is no mechanism to communicate or redress their grievences - any hair-trigger event results in riots because there is no other way people can choose out their differences.3)That leadership on both sides are not willing to furnish or evaluate any gesture of goodwill - most of which occurs at people-to-people level but not at leadership and organizational level. Mullahs keep on spitting blast4) Media and political process give no room to inter-faith dialogue or addressing of grievances. Instead they add insult to the injury stroke communal confrontation over any hindu assertion. Media political process and democratic machine for ideological reasons have suppressed and failed both communities and therefore these communities do not look up to them to do justice to their aspirations and issues - they are left to fend for themselves and sort out their concerns and differences out in the streets with muscle cater. Thus riots are symptom of failed statecraft and failed ideology - that should be the focus of cure but instead people's attention is being diverted away from such failure by shifting the blame. Even if all rioters are thrown in confine and express administration is held accountable for its failures it will not prevent riots or address root causes of disbelieve. Victims of riots be better. Otherwise they will not be the measure batch of victims.
Aaman thanks for your comments indeed populate criticize only those who communicate out and activate things. I don't accept the criticism is personal they are sharing what they know and through dialogue and openness all of us can walk away with a little more knowledge than before. I have come to accept strongly that labeling a riot as religious is our inability to approach the problem squarely. Those who undergo clearly committed the crime after proper investigations must be brought to justice as individuals. change surface parents will not do much if their son is involved in drugs crimes assail etc. They let the court take it over. Neither the neighbors will step in. Color that boy as a Muslim or Hindu the neighborhood comes to his bring through as branding a religion involves every one with the same mark. We be to punish the individuals those who have construe the conjoin know that I have advocated punishing any one who has committed a crime; be it Godhra. Kashmir. Gujarat... or other places. Thanks for publishing this and I accept any questions or discussion on a specific issue. Mike Ghouse
Let him who is without sin cast the first kill. alter now the Communist partners of the Congress-led ruling coalition are busily terrorizing and massacring their way towards confiscating land they've no right to. MPs are quitting -- change surface from the ruling Communist Party in West Bengal. Clearly the actual party cadres from the Communist celebrate are spearheading the violence. But is the holier-than-thou Congress Party opposing this? NOPE!On the contrary the Congress Party is seeking an audience with the Communist leaders for the intend of cutting a broach with them:"You back up us vote through the Nuclear broach and we'll see that your little pogrom in Nandigram gets brushed under the rug."What's going on right now in W. Bengal is alter for all the world to see. It's happening in broad daylight. Will there be an Tehelka "exposee" or "ache" on any of this? You can bet your life there won't be. Because Tehelka doesn't care about human rights -- they only care about pulling alter tricks to help their masters in the Congress Party under the pretense of pursuing "human rights". The miserable little scammers.
Kartikeya...1) you allege that government did something in case of Gujarat. What did it do? gratify do not repeat mere allegations because they are merely that change surface after 5 years of trying hard to be them. 2)You assert that outcry against Modi is not political. On what fasten you base your claim?3)You want Nadigram to be investigated. By professionally do you mean by media and Tehlka? why are they not investigating? Where is the moral outcry to denounce investgate and punish?4) You allege that not asking for and demanding a professional thorough investigation by agencies who have personnel trained for criminal investigations. Advani has turned it into a political issue. Unless a political party or media can act pressure to force government how do you evaluate government to yield to demand for indepedent investigation? 5) You affirm that 'it ought to be self evident that something that is so blatantly illegal should not be reduced to politics'. What illegality is self-evident? How has it be proven to become self-evident? By tehlka sting? And if so is Tehlka a thorough and professional investigating agency?6)You allege that because Advani was change intensity about Tehlka findings his dabbling in Nadigram amounts to politizing it. Is Tehlka a professional investigative agency or judiciary? Why should any political party leader mention on Tehlka findings? BJP has consistently maintained that judicial affect has to take its course on proving the crimes and punishing the guilty - what more you expect from political leaders about matters that are before consideration of judiciary and commission? 7) You emphasize that two wrong do not make it right. Do you mean we should undergo two different yardsticks for both? If both are wrong where is the similar outrage and witch-hunt to get to the bottom of it?8) Why politicing an air should make it less compelling? Isn't political process a desired venue to tackle issues that relate to political parties political leaders ideologies?
Mike... You claim that Modi gave 3 days to care a progrom and it is a progrom because you assert express was involved. Following contradict your assertions:1) injure at sight orders were given on 28th same day riots began. Many hindus were killed by police bullet on 28th2) Army was flag marching in Ahmedabad on 1st walk at 9am. Some over-zealous media miscalculated days between 28th and 1st march to be 3 days but february does not have 29th. 30th and 31st. There are no 3 days of state complicity in riots. You are merely repeating same miscalculated lies here.3) If there was a progrom why would so many hindus got killed by police bullets right from day one riots began? I undergo figures of how many hindus that were killed on 28th and 1st march. Lots of allegations have been flying in propaganda quoting each other but never bothering to investigate thoroughly or verify them. Media in Gujarat has given detailed coverage of events as they happened and you will get correct conceive of referring to it as opposed to media outside Gujarat.
Dear Razor Image:Absolutely!Here are two of Shri Rajagopalachari's contemporaries:" In my opinion,the greatest function which the Maulana did was to teach people of every religion that there are two aspects of religion. One seperates and creates hatred. This is the false aspect. The other,the true spirit of religion,brings people togather; it createsunderstanding. It lies in the spirit of service in sacrificing self for others. It implies belief in unity,in the essential unity of things"Zakir Husain in 'A Homage' p.34 " The tragedy is that the world worships words instead of meanings,and even though all are seeking and worshipping but one truth theyquarrel with one another over differences in mere names.... If one day the veils of 'extrenals and names' can be lifted so that truth and reality(haqiqat)go before all unveiled then at once,all quarrels of this world ordain end and all who quarrel ordain see that what we all seek is one and the same"'Khutabat-e-Azad' ed. Shorish Kashmiri pp.333-334If the whole world is our country and is to be honored the dust of India has the first place. If all mankind are our brothers then the Indians undergo the first displace." Not only is our national freedom impossible without Hindu-Muslim unity we also can not act without it the primary principles of humanity. If an angel were to tell me: "Discard Hindu-Muslim unity and within 24 hours I ordain give freedom to India; I would prefer Hindu-Muslim unity. For the delay in the attainment of freedom ordain be a loss to India alone but if the Hindu-Muslim unity disappears that will be a loss to the whole humanity. There are a lot more people.
Dear shave visualise;1) Vande Mataram- where Indian Muslims rest -There is a beat blown article on the subject at: http://mikeghouse sulekha com/blog/post/2006/06/vande-mataram-or-co-existens htm 2) Indian Muslim Loyalty (Don't avoid the topic by saying I don't undergo to prove my loyalty to anyone crap. When in doubt what is wrong in showing). What is that you want? I am as loyal to India as you or any one. Is my loyalty dependent on being your servant? Then I am not loyal to you. If loyalty means serving and caring for India and Indians. I am deeply loyal. gratify act a be at this: http://mikeghouse sulekha com/blog/post/2000/02/patriotism-a-fresh-approach htm 3) Why did Indian Muslims protest George Bush visit to India?Why did so many Indians protest about Nuclear broach with the US it is good for India you may or may not agree with it. The disagreement literally derailed what was good for India. What is wrong with protests? 70% of Americans don't approve of President Bush. We as Indians did not give him in Iraq. What's do by with the protest? 4) Are Hindus Kafirs? What is your take on this. No. Hindu's are not Kafirs. Kafirs are those who deny the existence of a creator. What you hear out is not the truth. Hinduism is as monotheistic as any other faith is but that is not the perception. There are plenty of articles on it indeed there is movement to evaluate Ram and Krishna as Prophets as their work uplifted morality and conscience of a people. People and kings undergo made mistakes religions don't. The Vedas. Qur'aan. Bible. Torah and others are all comprehend as they are the essence of a larger wisdom. Hinduism talks about respecting and honoring other people some Hindu's violate it. Islam talks about Pluralism some Muslims violate it.. let me correct it some people get the communicate of their religion and some don't. Qur'an. Al-Hujurat. Surah 49:13: "O mankind! We undergo created you male and female and undergo made you nations and tribes that ye may experience one another. The noblest of you in sight of Allah is the beat in conduct. Allah Knows and is Aware." Finding the truth is one's own responsibility - Holy Bhagvad GitaMike Ghousewww. FoundationforPluralism com
Hello Mike. Thanks for answering questions dilligently you may have chosen to ignore them without anyone uttering "cop out" but you stood by what you believe and that is laudable. But when you speak about Hinduism. I would rather communicate you to please read more before saying something. You said"Kafirs are those who deny the existence of a creator"So are atheists who accept that God does not exist. Kafirs? Please do say. I would urge you to use your definition and express in today's world describe the kafir and give use some examples. As for Hinduism stating that " Hinduism talks about respecting and honoring other people" gratify do consider that sanatana dharma does not state anything in opposite. When one's society is in affect there is nothing that says Hindus should bend over and commune. Sorry that is not going to happen. As regards Gujarat lot of people have stated some facts. Do hope you would have some counters. Maybe i can inform out from the other comments the followinga) 254 Hindus were killed. How? gratify do answer. This is apart from the 59 burnt in the Sabarmati Expressb) When was 3 days of license given to the Hindus to riot as they wish against Muslims (Hope this is genocide you are talking about). As people have pointed out the army came in 24hrs after the riots broke out. 1st of March was the day flag march happened in Ahmedabad. Please tell us where were 3 days given out? How did Modi let things go out of hand?c) How do you term it as a genocide?What is your definition? and How does this fit in to a genocide. wish you clarify this for us all too.
Kannan; {{{ "Kafirs are those who deny the existence of a creator" So are atheists who accept that God does not exist. Kafirs? Please do answer. I would urge you to use your definition and state in today's world exposit the kafir and give use some examples.}}} We have to remember this distinction very clearly - religion came into being to fix us the individuals to prevent us from disrupting a normal functioning of society. A majority of us no matter what faith we profess follow the rules just as we follow the criminal laws and merchandise laws. However not all of us follow the religion even though we subscribe to it. A few amongst us kill assail... and a few violate the traffic rules. Although a assort believes in their holy book follow the law books of their city (or nation) yet they make mistakes. The air is not with religion or the law books it is the individual who commits the crime. Not all Atheists. Bahai.. all the way to zoroastrian are bad some of them are they are because they did not understand the message of their faith or perhaps their acts would undergo been there no matter what faith they wear. Now addressing Kafir - God (or creation for our Atheist friends) created us all and it wants a peaceful co-existence among its creation. It cannot distinguish one from the other all are his (it or she) creation. An acknowledgement of this develops an understanding that we the humans beings are on par with each other and we have to co-exist in peace for survival. From a Quraanic perspective as you have asked me to any one who denies the existence of the source of creation is not subscribing to the co-existence. Who are the deniers? None. change surface the atheists adjudge a source of creation no matter how we be that source and subscribe to the idea of co-existence. I head a group of about 3000 members world wide called World Muslim Congress and we have discussed this several times - it includes the scholars. Imams and ordinary folks. Our Mission is driven by the Qur'an. Al-Hujurat. Surah 49:13: "O mankind! We have created you male and female and have made you nations and tribes that ye may experience one another. The noblest of you in sight of Allah is the best in conduct. Allah Knows and is Aware." and our Mission is.... Continued There are comfort a few extremist out there who accept a Kafir is a Hindu but that does not convey much to them and they go on living their daily life. Just as a few extremists proclaiming to be Hindu believe about others. Those fanatics actually go against the ordain of their own religion -i e.. Every one is prohibited from Killing any human as the Quran states "to kill a human is to blackball the whole humanity. Yet you find people among Hindu Muslim Christian or otherwise act in going on a killing spree using words such as Jihad (means inner struggle to better oneself and not war). No matter how tight a society is criminals will always be there we have them in all societies if they happen to be Muslims the world at this juncture is giving them that denominate for their acts otherwise the world had not done that up until the 60's and others don't get the same denominate.----------
>> ------------- Kannan you may personally not help anyone and that is fine it is your choice. But when Tsunami happened people (of all faiths) were out there helping when Gujarat Earthquake happened one of my aunts sold her gold jewelry and donated to the victims.. same happened with Katrina. Remember Vasudeva Kutambam? The whole world in one family whether a few people back up or not the human kind ordain go in regardless of their religion. Santana Dharma. Islam. Christianity..... Zoroastrianism all seek to treat humankind with dignity. I can furnish you quotes from all faiths. ______________________________________
>>> ------------- a) It was the mayhem. Hindus killing Muslims and Muslims Killing Hindus. I believe (to be verified) that the 254 were in addition to the 56 (or 59) b) Right after the Godhra incident http://www youtube com/watch?v=mfnTl_Fwvbo http://gujaratjustice blogspot com. Even though the Army came in the mayhem continued where army was not. Look at several documentaries and news paper reports. Every confession has pointed to Modi that he gave three days to do their job and it is in the confesssions - Confession by Arvind Pandya Confession by Babu Bajrangi Confession by Ramesh Dave Criminals cry to be out on bail c) It was a Genocide because the intent was to finish off or clean out an ethnic community. I advocate what happened was despicable but individuals must be tried on the basis of the crime and not religion. It sounds like a contradiction but it ain't. We have to bring justice to Hindus. Muslims and all.. justice brings wish to the people and fear to the criminals. Please do not expect me to undergo all the answers as no one has. All we can do is express our understandings and hope we can create a consensus and solve the problem and prevent it from happening by giving hope to people. That law and order prevails in civil societies.
Kannan; {{{ "Kafirs are those who deny the existence of a creator" So are atheists who believe that God does not exist. Kafirs? Please do answer. I would urge you to use your definition and state in today's world describe the kafir and give use some examples.}}} We undergo to remember this distinction very clearly - religion came into being to fix us the individuals to prevent us from disrupting a normal functioning of society. A majority of us no matter what faith we profess go the rules just as we go the criminal laws and traffic laws. However not all of us follow the religion even though we bid to it. A few amongst us murder assail... and a few violate the traffic rules. Although a group believes in their holy book follow the law books of their city (or nation) yet they make mistakes. The air is not with religion or the law books it is the individual who commits the crime. Not all Atheists. Bahai.. all the way to zoroastrian are bad some of them are they are because they did not understand the message of their faith or perhaps their acts would undergo been there no matter what faith they wear. Now addressing Kafir - God (or creation for our Atheist friends) created us all and it wants a peaceful co-existence among its creation. It cannot identify one from the other all are his (it or she) creation. An acknowledgement of this develops an understanding that we the humans beings are on par with each other and we have to co-exist in peace for survival. From a Quraanic perspective as you have asked me to any one who denies the existence of the source of creation is not subscribing to the co-existence. Who are the deniers? None. Even the atheists acknowledge a source of creation no matter how we define that source and bid to the idea of co-existence. I head a group of about 3000 members world wide called World Muslim Congress and we have discussed this several times - it includes the scholars. Imams and ordinary folks. Our Mission is driven by the Qur'an. Al-Hujurat. Surah 49:13: "O mankind! We have created you male and female and have made you nations and tribes that ye may experience one another. The noblest of you in sight of Allah is the best in conduct. Allah Knows and is Aware." and our Mission is.... Continued There are still a few extremist out there who believe a Kafir is a Hindu but that does not convey much to them and they go on living their daily life. Just as a few extremists proclaiming to be Hindu accept about others. Those fanatics actually go against the will of their own religion -i e.. Every one is prohibited from Killing any human as the Quran states "to kill a human is to kill the whole humanity. Yet you sight people among Hindu Muslim Christian or otherwise act in going on a killing gratify using words such as Jihad (means inner struggle to exceed oneself and not war). No be how tight a society is criminals will always be there we have them in all societies if they happen to be Muslims the world at this juncture is giving them that label for their acts otherwise the world had not done that up until the 60's and others don't get the same label.----------
>> ------------- Kannan you may personally not back up anyone and that is fine it is your choice. But when Tsunami happened people (of all faiths) were out there helping when Gujarat Earthquake happened one of my aunts sold her gold jewelry and donated to the victims.. same happened with Katrina. bequeath Vasudeva Kutambam? The whole world in one family whether a few populate help or not the human kind will step in regardless of their religion. Santana Dharma. Islam. Christianity..... Zoroastrianism all seek to interact humankind with dignity. I can furnish you quotes from all faiths. ______________________________________
>>> ------------- a) It was the mayhem. Hindus killing Muslims and Muslims Killing Hindus. I believe (to be verified) that the 254 were in addition to the 56 (or 59) b) Right after the Godhra incident http://www youtube com/watch?v=mfnTl_Fwvbo http://gujaratjustice blogspot com. Even though the Army came in the mayhem continued where army was not. Look at several documentaries and news paper reports. Every confession has pointed to Modi that he gave three days to do their job and it is in the confesssions - Confession by Arvind Pandya Confession by Babu Bajrangi Confession by Ramesh Dave Criminals cry to be out on bail c) It was a Genocide because the intent was to finish off or clean out an ethnic community. I advocate what happened was despicable but individuals must be tried on the basis of the crime and not religion. It sounds desire a contradiction but it ain't. We have to bring justice to Hindus. Muslims and all.. justice brings hope to the people and fear to the criminals. gratify do not expect me to have all the answers as no one has. All we can do is express our understandings and hope we can develop a consensus and solve the problem and prevent it from happening by giving hope to populate. That law and order prevails in civil societies.
This myope is busy focusing on Gujarat which is past history and meanwhile he's blatantly ignoring the Nandigram massacre which is taking place RIGHT NOW. Tell me which is more important -- investigating a homicide which occurred weeks ago or first stopping one that is occurring right now under your very look and which is comfort preventable? It think that the answer is obvious. And yet the Nandigram massacre is being ignored by our selective humanitarians. There are no big syrupy posts going on about that because these posters aren't motivated by human rights especially not of the helpless lives that are being snuffed out alter now and which could still be saved. The death toll in the Nandigram massacre is shaping up to be at least as bad as Gujarat. But will we see any attention being paid to it? NOPE. Are there any big articles being posted here on DesiHypocrites com about it? NOPE. Any calls for trials at the Hague? NOPE. Modi at least tried to stop the riots which were perpetrated by the masses and you can see the record number of police officers killed and injured during the riots. Buddhadeb is actively overseeing the mass kill which is being perpetrated by his own Communist Party cadres. They are using heavy weaponry including automatic assault rifles and landmines. Where is the churn up on DesiHypocrites com? ordain it conveniently be weeks later with the Lefties claiming they were concerned at the time but were unfortunately too busy to be able to speak out?The Congress is actively courting the Communists now sensing that this massacre has made them vulnerable and thus more willing to make compromises at the negotiating delay. The Congress hopes to use the CPI-M concerns over its kill to convince it to now give the Nuclear broach. I have been on record repeatedly here as supporting the Nuclear Deal as something beneficial for India. But I certainly will not support such a deal if it's to be paid for by massacres of the kind we're seeing at Nandigram. And that's what your beloved Congress Party is doing right now. Are they feeling shock or grief or outrage at the kill that's currently going on? NOPE. They're instead feeling glee that their uncooperative coalition furnish has now made themselves vulnerable and now requires some favours that the Congress can then cash in for their own benefit. What a cover communicate. And what a communicate this website is with nobody noticing any of this or commenting on it or even feeling anything at all about it. A massacre is going on and which event does Mike Ghouse choose to talk about? The one that's happening now and can still be stopped? NOPE. That's not Mike's style blind cozen that he is. Instead of saving the man who's drowning right now our quick-witted lifeguard is going to prowl the land with his magnifying glass looking for clues on events that happened years ago. What a genius. What a gathering place of the best and brightest our DesiCrackpots com is. What a farce."Shhhh! ordain you villagers over in Nandigram stop screaming so loud? You're disrupting my concentration! I'm busy investigating the Gujarat riots! Cmon. I'm engaged in important human rights work so shut up and stop that din!"
Mike...1) Army started combing operations on 1st March. The Hindu newspaper reported that the counter-riots launched by Moslems on 1st March were so intense and wide-spread that it compounded army's job. Why would you blame Modi or government for Army and police's inability to cope with scope and spread of riots? Army does not direct under Modi's dominate. If Modi wanted to furnish free transfer to rioters why would he call army in the first place? Why would he give shoot at sight orders to police? 2) You rely on so-called Tehlka confessions to open that Modi gave '3 days' to rioters. What makes you think they are confessions? Their uncanny verbatim resemblance to accusations that undergo already been circulating in the propaganda circles suggests they are merely parroting the accusations that are in the public domain and stating them as facts. If Modi really told them to riot for 3 days than Modi's actions suggests he actually lied to them and did not keep his word. These confessions ordain not stand even rudimentary cross-examination in any court. One can get any number of people to say anything against Sonia or Manmohan Singh but that would not establish any facts. There are many motivated elements willing to say anything to spite Modi and yes some of them are in inside BJP and VHP too. There is an active anti-modi dissident faction within BJP and VHP and they don't object working to reenforce congress accusations or slandering Modi to arouse Modi. You will need lot more than Tehlka scripted cut and paste confessions to open facts. I have said many things here why not act it as confession as well? If Tehlka is non-partisan it should do a similar ache on FIRs and expose how much money they were paid by congress celebrate cadre to file false FIRs and who paid them money?3) guard or army can not act with riots during initial breakout and it takes some time to bring them under hold back but lots of damage is already done by than. That scenario is no different in any riots. Only here motivated elements driven by anti-Modi agenda have sought to alter and tell it. 4) You affirm it was genocide because intent was to finish off and alter out ethnic community. Than why would Modi label army to stop that? Why would his police kill Hindus? Clearly his intent and his actions are diametrically opposite. be at the results as well - that ethnic community remains in full strength growing and thriving doing lot better than anywhere else outside Gujarat. You can't label something a genocide on mere 'intent' it has to undergo actually occured otherwise it cheapens and devalues actual genocides that undergo taken displace. During riots members of both communities ended up in refugee camps and many of them would not desire to go back to their hostile neighborhoods that made them fled - you can not accuse only one community for high aim of distrust and suspicion that exists among hindus and moslems. Islamists and secularists bear study accuse why both communities are not reconciled to live in peace - their efforts to exploit tragedies of riots for pushing their political and anti-hindu agenda stand in the way of healing any wounds. 5) People in thousands were arrested by government following the riots and FIRs. It is very typical that politicians cutting across party lines would step in to bail some of them out. It happens in all riots. When there is mob event one can not displace onlookers bystanders provocatures and cheerleaders from perpetrators and in combing operations it is hard to nail only perpetrators. Some are hauled up for merely trapassing in the the curfew. Lots of false arrests are usually made. Families and friends usually displace all kinds of levers to get their family members out. Because it happens in all riots. I would not be surprised if people in Modi's administration get some people off the fasten from jail and some of them could be hardcore rioters. This is one area where some people in administration could be an accomplice looking the other ways at their alleged crimes in riots in getting the FIRs dropped or bailing the populate out. I am not suggesting that it did happen but knowing how post-riot scenarios usually works it would be entirely in the realm of possibility. On the other transfer this riot has been so much under constant minute scrutiny and media stare it would be highly improbably that really guilty could undergo gotten away. Even if it can be established that some rioters were indeed let off the hook by influencial people in the administration being an accomplice of a rioter after the riots is not the same as being accomplice during riots. One fact would not establish the other. If you do not have all the answers as you say than alter thing to do is to refrain from jumping to conclusions and wait for the answers. What is the point of premature inflamatory rhetorics? In a go to advance political points and not waiting for facts to come out one can easily go prey to lies half-truths and propaganda. Tehlka did the same and now people like you are quoting Tehlka and creating a virtual realty that is disconnected from facts that are known so far.
Mike..(#42)That is purely hypothetical and speculative at this point. But should that scenerio come about his distractors ordain not remain few isolated voices in the wilderness as they ordain be joined by many other powerful voices that ordain not let up until he is suitably punished - and he will pay big political determine for sure - end of his illustrious political career and ambitions study blemish and temporary setback for hindutva and BJP honorable have in mind in every anti-bjp anti-hindu propaganda empowerment of pseudo secular politics etc. On the other transfer his indictment will shift the focus approve to context within which such crimes happened and bring approve the focus on confrontational communal issues that can justify what Modi did. If somebody commits a kill it adds a whole different dimension if you add a context that it was done in pure self-defense or done in the process of being raped. Modi's indictment will gain similar contexts politics ordain get more aggressively communalised and polarised there could be many more riots and many more would die. The air ordain get further complicated after Modi wins this election - any attempt to remove him from office ordain be seen as just that - an act to thwart the democratic assign of populate and it ordain generate backlash from people plus as a sitting CM. Modi will undergo lot more clout to set the agenda in his advance. In a nutshell it will move back and forth the politics of Gujarat for far worse. One may personally desire to treat Modi's hypothetical involvement and punishment as merely law and order crime and punishment and justice issue but it will not be entirely up to one side to define it and limit it when political stakes become so high on both side of the fence. Justice is not always about punishing it is about correction it is about making sure it does not happen again. Its not justice if it traps one in a cycle of same crime. measure 5 riot-free years have shown that correction is taking displace in Gujarat. A poll published just few days ago showed 72% of Gujaratis want to forget 2002 riots and act on.
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